Curse

jezz · Oct 31, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Can you politely tell me how it is legit? Considering it effects the time it will take, and MMORPG's are about time.

Keep in mind that I am not saying:

Wiki is fair.
Running is fair.
Paying for something is fair.

so don't reply with 'it's fair because guild wiki is up!'.

Please explain to me clearly, how it is fair? A cheat for tomb raider on playstation one, is still a cheat. Regardless of if the game is now worthless and it's not multiplayer

.

I am also not emotional on the subject. I do not really care who cheats, I just want a valid explination. Not one of you have managed to do that, all you have done is quote someone else blindly following them.

I have a one million gold bet on a friend that I will get CGC quicker than he will. I will not be using any mods or outside help to do it. I will just be playing the game, like I would if I had the computer with nothing installed - no internet browsers. Just the game. We are going to make new characters from scratch.

I don't know what my friend will be doing. Do you think he will be able to cheat?

you call it a cheat...others call it a visual aide..especially helpful to those GW players with poor vision..
time to get over it..and if you dont care quit posting in here.

ChaoticCoyote · Oct 31, 2007, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

MMORPG's are about time.

Using a wiki walkthrough saves time -- therefore, isn't using Guild Wiki a cheat? After all, you can get the Protector/Guardian titles much faster using a wiki than you can just playing the game.... so how is that nay different from TexMod?

Ignoring those issues, I disagree completely about you definition of an MMO. MMORPGs are about THE EXPERIENCE, not about time. GW provides a rather boring and repetitive experience in exchange for meaningless vanity items... so why not cut down on the tedium by using somethign like TexMod to gain a title that has NO intrinsic menaing or practical effect?

FyrFytr998 · Oct 31, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

To the OP....

So are people cheating at life when they use Mapquest or Google Earth to look for directions to get somewhere? I see.....Their experience would be much more self gratifying if they just wandered around town until they found the address they were looking for.

For giggles, I decided to get a Cartography Mod to see what areas my Ranger, who is at STUCK at 98.4% in Tyria mind you, missed. Well needless to say I was pissed off at all the little crappy areas that made up for it. What BS! I plan to get the rest of the mods now, because obviously scrapping and going slow through areas sometimes doesn't get it done by itself.

Will it tarnish the title when I do get 100%? Absolutely not. As was stated. A player still has to devote a certain amount of gameplay to getting the title.

So get off your high horse and find something truly meaningful in life to moan about.

coil · Oct 31, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

So no actual skill involved.

this tickels my lol bone

Rider · Oct 31, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

I usually don't post much around here... Generally just lurk around and see what is happing and let sykoone tell me when something else is going on... But I have to say that this has been an amusing thread to watch.

I don't think any of us realized when we created this mod that it would generate this kind of topic. It's beyond me how it could be considered cheating as all it does is make mapping easier for others. They still have to physically go out and do it themselves. I also don't see how it could possibly make someone who did it the hard way feel cheated.

Yes I am the mapper for the Cartography Made Easy mods. The mod didn't exist when I went through any of the campaigns. At times I wish it had, but it didn't. I had to do it the hard way. Yes I have LGMC and I am proud of it. I have a guild member who used it and is still just as proud to have his title as I am. Both of us had to go out and do the work... He only got the option of seeing where he needed to go. Yes I know there are spots that I missed... That shows just how much variance there is in the mapping system.

Am I worried about what others think of me for giving people an easier way to do it? Not at all. All this has done is generate alot of publicity for the mod and brought it to the attention of Gaile Gray. We all know ANET's stand on things like this as it has been pointed to numerous times. Am I worried about what they think about it... Not at all... although I am curious to see what or if they make any other comments about it.

Would I do it again if it wasn't already done ? You bet. I have been playing this game since it first came out and still enjoy it today, and will be updating the others as soon as the holiday event is over. We started this whole mod to help guildies and decided to release it so others could enjoy it as well. Not everyone will use it...Not everyone will like it...It doesn't give anyone any unfair advantages like other mods do which I won't discuss, so I don't see why anyone needs to worry about it so much...

Also just a side note... One of the developers of these mods still does not have any of his cartography titles done. He isn't worried about getting it.

Just have fun... get along... don't worry about what others do or think if it doesn't affect you. Makes the game a whole lot more enjoyable.

IGN: Rider Of Storms

pumpkin pie · Oct 31, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

First off, it's not a piece of programming at all. It's nothing more than an image file. Saying "it's a piece of programming" will give people the assumption that this is some sort of bot - which it is not.

okay, first of all, its quite bad for me to argue something I've not use before, but to my understanding, besides the map overlay this mods also finds for you spots that has not been un-covered/ mapped/ or are your character has not been too before. is that correct?

If that is correct, it is programming. and a bot that finds un-mapped area on your map.

Karyuu · Oct 31, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

It's a replacement for your fog - that fog exists in the GW client, and all the map mod does is make it easier to see.

It's no programming.

pumpkin pie · Oct 31, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

what about the finding and marking of the spot that you couldn't find?

besides we already have a un-fog map

U

Karyuu · Oct 31, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I don't really understand what you're pointing out, sorry in advance if it takes a while to get through to me :P Finding and marking of the spots you couldn't find? How so? All it does is change the color of the fog, and show stronger outlines around the fog borders.

Bryant Again · Oct 31, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

what about the finding and marking of the spot that you couldn't find?

Like, does the mod say "whoop, you missed a spot, go back" (not exactly, but in a manner of speaking?)

No. The only thing that these mods are doing is replacing images (hench Texmod.)

Amon Warrior · Oct 31, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider

Yes I am the mapper for the Cartography Made Easy mods.

You're the guy that made those mods?

Well, got only one thing to say to you...

Thanks a lot man!

pumpkin pie · Oct 31, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

I don't really understand what you're pointing out, sorry in advance if it takes a while to get through to me :P Finding and marking of the spots you couldn't find? How so? All it does is change the color of the fog, and show stronger outlines around the fog borders.

Karyuu: see this picture

what is that square beneath The Wild? is it mark places that you've not been to before?

Karyuu · Oct 31, 2007, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Like I said, it changes the color of your fog. That square still exists without Texmod using the default fog color.

Skye Marin · Oct 31, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Basically, before textmod, folks used reference maps. Before then, a few folks just did it.

Using the textmod mod is no more cheating than using a reference map and photoshop to flip between pictures. It's just a whole lot easier. I'm convinced that the first few folks who did cartographer shared reference maps with each other to get the full picture.

Bottom line is, I did Cantha and Elona with the flip-map method, and now that I've taken the plunge with the textmod solution for my last 5% of Tyria, I won't be going back.

CyberNigma · Oct 31, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

yeah if they actively go after soemthing like this then they may as well go after the wikis as well. They're ultimately gamers themselves which means there's probably an elitist mindset in there as well which will become prevalent (oh wait, that makes it easier, let's get it). I haven't used it, got my carts and I don't care if people use it. In fact, if people don't have to hunt for it then so much the better. The thing is, when real cartographers went out mapping, they didn't have to go run up against a wall for a little piece to pop out (I'm talking real life), they just went to the areas they could and mapped it. Believe me also that when you're in-game, if you're just wanting to show it off, then it's not a prestigious title. Be prepared for the tons of 'play the game' and 'no life' comments that you will get.

The better solution would be to make the blocks that are revealed larger than they are now so that characters would have to still go into all the areas of the map, but without the idiotic 'hugging the wall' to get a few pixels to pop. I swear. Much of what ANet does is pretty good, but some of the other hairbrained things make me think they left Blizzard before they flopped out (founder being the exception).

ReiNaruto · Oct 31, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Why do we all continue arguing about this?

The op just want to be the only one that have the title, he want to be superior. That's find with me, I'm not shouting people that uses GW to know how to defeat Shiro, despite I did kill him before any suggestions was made, and you must believe me it was hard.

And, this is not going to anywhere, people that think that it is ok will continue thinking their way, the same for the opposite ones. Also, as Gayle has said, she doubt that anything will be done in GW1.

CHunterX · Oct 31, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Can you politely tell me how it is legit? Considering it effects the time it will take, and MMORPG's are about time.

Keep in mind that I am not saying:

Wiki is fair.

The official wiki tells you how to use Texmod.

Surena · Oct 31, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy untouchable

QQ more...good god folks, you are just pissed b/c someone did there title a easyer way....Who cares. it dosnt have any affect on how you play. this reminds me of the "OMG they are killing the rares" Your E-peen is smaller because someone else did something the easyer way. "but i bowled a strike with my eyed closed" "why cant everyone bowl with there eyes closed" "those guys with both eyes open got a strike in only 8 trys" "it took me 56 trys" "wah" "ban them from the bowling alley"

/rant off

Indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

To who? I don't care if you got Legendary Cartographer. I also don't care if you got God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals. I care if I get those titles, and you should care if you get those titles. But don't try to make me care about what you did or didn't do, and how much effort you did or did not put into something.

I love Karyuu more and more.

It's astonishing how people focus their character's development on the achievement of others. It's the same people that buy FoW, rare weapons, not because they like it but to impress and show off.

VitisVinifera · Oct 31, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

But I think the point is, the mod does change things, dramatically! I do not see the OP "belittling" someone. I see him expressing concern that suddenly those achievements that had one level of requirement are substantially easier to obtain. If someone wanders around trying to get that last .03%, that's entirely different than if someone can fire up the mod, jump to the map, and complete the final percentage in a matter of minutes.

Torqual, I understand your concerns, and this thread will be included in this week's community summary. I honestly don't expect that the game will be altered to revert the newly-changed parameters back to what they once were. But I will pass along how you feel about it, principally for future consideration.

I know I'm chiming in here a bit late, and I know Gaile won't read this response, but I hope Anet carefully considers their blind eye position to modding. They started the path down the slippery slope of being permissive to mods which give in-game advantages before, and now it has re-manifested itself. Each time, a small segment of the community feels alienated. Those segments add up.

Gaile Gray · Oct 31, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hott Bill

So the all over question implied here is: Is this cheating or not? Plain and simple

Is using TexMod cheating? I can't answer specific questions about "Is this use cheating?" and "Is this use ok?" I can link you to some statements I've made on the subject, with the approval of Mike O'Brien, co-founder of ArenaNet.

Here's the wiki post that may help. (It is linked to materials that are months old, so don't mind the commentary above -- those issues are fully resolved.)

But I do understand that the larger issue is the question of whether the use of the mod in this instance is acceptable. A title once took months and a lot of ingenuity to acquire. Now, it can be obtained with virtually zero ingenuity (other than finding the mod and installing it

) and in a matter of days. Does that concern us? Would we ban someone who "exploited" the game in that manner? I honestly don't think so, but I truly do not know.

I have sent an email to Mike O'Brien asking him specifically about this. Again, I don't think that anyone needs to be overly concerned about this, but for your peace of mind, I will inquire and get back to you with the answer to this particular question.

Please understand that this thread did not "stir the pot" or cause us to place any undue attention on this question, or on modding as a whole. There is some rather heated commentary directed at the OP, where in fact his question is both practical and philosophical, and is nothing about which we were previously unaware. Also, it didn't cause a focus, or the arming of some sort of "ban gun" or "nerf bat."